Nonprofit Build Up® Podcast

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Ajani Husbands, Vice President of Strategic Planning and Senior Counsel is passionate about finding innovative solutions to complex problems. Ajani received his B.A. in International Relations and minor in African/African-American Studies from Stanford University, his M.A. in International Development from American University, and his J.D. from NYU School of Law. He is a Thomas R. Pickering Foreign Affairs Fellow and a Root-Tilden-Kern Scholar.

Ajani began his career as a U.S. diplomat, where he served in Eritrea, Haiti, Pakistan, and South Sudan, liaising with a wide range of local organizations, artists, activists, and business owners to support foreign policy objectives. After a decade of service, Ajani obtained his law degree, and transitioned to working as a transactional attorney at major law firms, where he advised public companies, private equity firms, and financial institutions on an array of capital market transactions. He also maintained an active pro bono practice representing asylum seekers and providing transactional legal support to nonprofits.

Amanda Nasinyama, Director of Strategic Initiatives, is a social justice advocate who is passionate about promoting and protecting the rights of vulnerable and marginalized people and communities. Amanda received her undergraduate Law degree (LLB) from Makerere University in Uganda and her Master’s Law degree (LLM) from the University of Pennsylvania Carey Law School. She is a Penn Law LLM Rule of Law and Human Rights Fellow.

Amanda began her career as a Resettlement Intern at the UN Refugee Agency in Uganda. She later joined HIAS Refugee Trust of Kenya as a Resettlement Officer, interviewing refugees and drafting applications for them to be resettled to a third country. Amanda has worked with UN Women’s East and Southern Africa Regional Office, managing governance, peace, security, and humanitarian projects and provided technical support to 13 UN Women’s country offices within the region to promote gender equality and women’s empowerment.

Amanda later joined the UN Department of Peace Operations at the UN Headquarters in New York. She worked on protecting civilians in UN peacekeeping operations by developing policy and guidance, coordinating with various stakeholders, including member states, and providing backstopping support to UN peacekeeping missions.

Currently, as the Director of Strategic Initiatives, Amanda manages and leads strategy, work, and operations within Build Up, Inc. (BUI). She is responsible for designing and implementing policies, exploring thought authority and leadership opportunities throughout the sector, and expanding BUI’s role within the nonprofit sector and fiscal sponsorship in particular.

Chioma Sophia Amaechi, Program Associate, is passionate about advocacy, equity, and fostering sustainable impact. Her unwavering dedication is evident through her involvement in various projects and programs within Nigeria and South Africa that are focused on benefiting the youth and the girl-child. Her experiences have greatly influenced and inspired her research in the fields of social protection policy and poverty alleviation in the African context. is passionate about advocacy, equity, and fostering sustainable impact. Her unwavering dedication is evident through her involvement in various projects and programs within Nigeria and South Africa that are focused on benefiting the youth and the girl-child. Her experiences have greatly influenced and inspired her research in the fields of social protection policy and poverty alleviation in the African context.

Chioma holds a master’s degree in Public Management and Policy from the University of Pretoria South Africa, an Honors degree in Public Administration from Stellenbosch University, South Africa, and a Bachelor of Technology degree from FUTO, Nigeria. She is an alumna of two prestigious scholarship programs—the Mandela Rhodes Foundation (MRF) and the Mastercard Foundation (MCF) Scholars Program. Both programs provided her the platform to actively participate in meaningful dialogues and conversations linked to advancing Africa’s growth, with a central focus on promoting entrepreneurship, reconciliation, and nurturing ethical and transformative leadership. 

In her role at Build Up, Chioma serves as the primary point of contact for Build Up, Inc.’s (BUI) team. Beyond this, she brings her enthusiasm to provide key administrative and project support, and management to the BUI team, helping to build and maintain relationships with BUI’s sponsored projects as well as its strategic partners and organizing and streamlining operations. 

Beyond her professional life, Chioma enjoys spending her spare time engaging in nature walks, traveling with her husband, reading, and cherishing moments of laughter and happiness with her loved ones. 

[PART 1 TRANSCRIPT]

[INTRO]

[00:00:08] Nic Campbell: You’re listening to the Nonprofit Build Up podcast, and I’m your host,
Nic Campbell. I want to support movements that can interrupt cycles of injustice and inequity,
and shift power towards vulnerable and marginalized communities. I’ve spent years working in
and with nonprofits and philanthropies, and I know how important infrastructure is to outcomes.
On this show, we’ll talk about how to build capacity to transform the way you and your
organization work.

[00:00:38] Stefanie Wong: Hi, and welcome to the Nonprofit Build Up Podcast. I’m Stefanie
Wong, Build Up’s Executive Portfolio Manager. Today’s episode is one you won’t want to miss.
Decolonizing Fiscal Sponsorship is today’s episode, and we’re joined by Ajani Husbands, Vice
President of Strategic Planning and Senior Counsel; Amanda Nasinyama, Director of Strategic
Initiatives; and Chioma Amaechi, Program Associate from the Build Up, Inc. team.

In this episode, we reflect on the past year’s achievements and dig into the innovative ways
Build Up, Inc. is addressing systemic inequities through a decolonized approach to fiscal
sponsorship. From providing flexible fee structures to prioritizing cultural relevance, this
conversation showcases how the team is reshaping the nonprofit sector to empower BIPOC-led
initiatives and grassroots organizations. Tune in to learn more about the practical strategies and
systemic changes that can help nonprofit leaders build equitable and sustainable support
structures for lasting impact.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:01:37] Nic Campbell: Hi, Amanda, Ajani, Chioma, and welcome to the Nonprofit Build Up
podcast. I am really looking forward to this conversation. In many ways, it’s a continuation of the
first conversation that Ajani, Amanda, and I had about fiscal sponsorship in Build Up, Inc. Now,
we’ve added Chioma to the conversation and to the Build Up, Inc. team. I’m really looking
forward into just hearing what has transpired over the past year, how the team has grown, and
just learning more about the work and where we are at this point.

To get us started, Chioma, I’m going to put you on the spot. Just kick us off with introductions
and say a little bit more about your background and what brings you to the work. I know we’ve
heard from Ajani and Amanda about what brings them to the work, so I’d love to hear about your
passion and interest here. Then we can move over to Ajani and Amanda to reintroduce
themselves.

[00:02:38] Chioma Amaechi: Thank you, Nic. It’s a pleasure to be here. I’ve been a fan of the
podcast, and being here is a delight. My name is Chioma Sophia Amaechi. I’m passionate about
driving change in social equity, poverty alleviation, and sustainable development through
nonprofit work. Over the years, I have had the privilege of working across diverse sectors and
geographies, including Nigeria and South Africa, where I have supported in developing
programs and led projects that aim to address social and economic challenges in underserved
communities. I have focused on helping to alleviate multidimensional poverty.

All those experiences has delightfully led me to Build Up, Inc. where I serve as the Program
Associate with the BUI team. I am the primary point of contact for potential and currently
sponsored projects, partners, and vendors. I assist in communication on behalf of the team,
while supporting the work of Amanda and Ajani alongside the broader BUI team.

[00:03:42] Nic Campbell: Thanks so much, Chioma. I really love how our paths always bring
us to where we should be, right? I think that your deep experience has led you to where you are
now, and we’re really happy that you’re on the team. I will turn it over to Amanda.

[00:04:01] Amanda Nasinyama: Hi, Nic. Hi, everyone. Just a quick recap of who I am. My
name is Amanda Nasinyama, and I am the Director of Strategic Initiatives at Build Up, Inc. I
manage the day-to-day operations of the organization and basically try to make sure that we’re
running smoothly. I’ve been with Build Up, Inc. almost two and a half or more than two and a
half years actually. It feels like forever, but this still feels very fresh and new. I’m really enjoying
working with all our sponsored projects and seeing them grow and just seeing what Build Up
has grown so much from in the past year in terms of infrastructure development, in terms of how
many projects we have, in terms of thought leadership and how much we’re getting out there
externally. We’re going to talk about that, so very excited to be back on the podcast to talk about
that.

[00:05:02] Nic Campbell: Thanks, Amanda. Yes, I definitely want to talk more about the
projects that have come on board and the different ways that we’ve been exploring thought
leadership in this space as well. Ajani, over to you.

[00:05:15] Ajani Husbands: Thank you, Nic. My name is Ajani Husbands. I am Vice President
and Senior Counsel at Build Up, Inc. I’ve been with the team about as long as Amanda rejoined
roughly at the same time, so a little over two and a half years. It has just been an absolute thrill
to be here. I mean, to the question of why am I here, I think it’s because just Build Up Company,
but also Build Up, Inc. in particular, just fulfills all the things that I’ve been looking for in a career
trajectory. Not just working with nonprofits but doing so in a very intentional, meaningful way and
really sitting down to figure out how can we adjust or how can we tackle certain ingrained
issues. That’s how we came to this notion of decolonizing fiscal sponsorship, which I think we’ll
talk about later on in the interview.

[00:06:10] Chioma Amaechi: Yes, indeed we will. I think that concept is something I really want
us to dig into. I want to start just kind of looking back over the past year. I’d love to hear what
stands out to each of you about the work that you have done over the past year to support
BIPOC-led projects and initiatives through fiscal sponsorship.

[00:06:36] Amanda Nasinyama: Thanks, Nic. I’ll start and hand it over to my lovely colleagues
to talk about some of our achievements in the past year. We have successfully on boarded
about four impactful projects this year, including one that’s based in Haiti that’s dedicated to
combating the effects of the patriarchal societal structures on women. We have another that is
changing the narratives in Africa through media. We’ll be onboarding two more projects by the
end of the year. In total, by the end of 2024, we should have about 14 projects. Thinking back to
when both Ajani and I joined when we had no sponsored projects, this is such a huge
achievement to get to 14 sponsored projects at the end of 2024.

Secondly, we have also provided critical infrastructure to help our projects to secure funding and
expand their reach. Currently, in just this year, three of our projects have secured significant
funding to do their work. I think so far they’ve raised about over $500,000, and we also expect
more at the end of the year. It’s a testament to our project’s hard work. It’s a testament to their
growth and also the support Build Up, Inc. has been providing. I’ll hand it over to Chioma or
Ajani to continue with our achievements.

[00:08:01] Chioma Amaechi: I would add that one of the cornerstone of our success this year
has been the participation at the National Network of Fiscal Sponsors conference where we
presented on the topic of decolonizing fiscal sponsorship. It was a very exciting moment to
engage with our peers to just rethink the traditional model of fiscal sponsorship and advocate for
a more collaborative community-led approach to fiscal sponsorship. This conversation is one
that is resonating with us and just others in the field, and we are proud to be at the forefront of
this important shift.

[00:08:38] Ajani Husbands: To that I’m going to add our participation in the African
Philanthropy Conference and just in terms of being able to participate. The reason why that was
important to us in terms of our achievements is that it really set the groundwork for how we want
to be intentional about how we expand our efforts internationally. I think being able to be part of
the conference and learn more from African-based organizations and nonprofits, and the goals
there, and the challenges, as well as the techniques. I think that really helped us to get a better
sense of figuring out how would we as an organization work to make sure that as we expand
our reach to more international projects that we are providing the services that are being sought
and that we are coming in a manner that is useful and of value to organizations overseas.

[00:09:36] Nic Campbell: That’s a lot of work that has been accomplished over the year, and it
really seems aligned with how we describe Build Up, Inc. and at the same time very diverse.
What are some of the learnings that have come out of all of those projects and initiatives that
you’ve been leading and working on in this space that has led you to this concept about
decolonizing fiscal sponsorship. How has it shown up in the accomplishments that you have
highlighted over the course of the year? Why are you speaking about it and so passionate about
it at this point?

[00:10:18] Ajani Husbands: One thing that we really focus on, and it’s something that Amanda
has done a lot of research on here, is just the fact that so few dollars are allocated to women-led
projects, and so you end up with a significant funding gap as well for BIPOC-led organizations.
That’s where we exist, just in terms of that delta. That’s something that we’ve known, but we’ve
grown more in that space over the last couple of years. That just as a necessity, Build Up, Inc.
exists to fill that gap where women in BIPOC-led initiatives are not receiving the funding. They’re
not receiving the infrastructure. They’re not receiving the guidance, the mentorship that other
organizations and entities are.

Within that space, filling that space, one of the things that we’ve learned is that cultural
relevance really matters. What does it mean when I say that? It means that when we are looking
at the organizations that we are sponsoring, when we’re looking how we want to build out our
identity as a physical sponsor, we’re not just looking for organizations that are working with
marginalized communities or invisiblized communities. We’re really looking for organizations
that are led by the communities that they seek to serve.

In terms of what that might look like, we have one organization that we love working with,
Lioness JIWA, Justice Impacted Women’s Alliance. They work towards the rights of women and
girls, formerly and currently incarcerated women and girls in Texas. They are an organization
that is 100% led by formerly and currently incarcerated women and girls in Texas. You really see
how that plays out and the type of work that they do, the type of advocacy that they do, the type
of programming and information and analysis that they provide. That’s the type of cultural
relevance that we really want to hone in on because that helps to make sure that you are
bringing down barriers of trust and relevance and effectiveness.

That idea of cultural relevance, I think that’s one thing that we’ve learned as we’ve grown over
the last couple of years. I’ll hand it over to one of my colleagues.

[00:12:28] Chioma Amaechi: Yes. I could actually comment because this cultural relevance is
very interesting to talk about. Because in our work, we found that when it comes to leadership
and communities, there’s often a disconnect with the way traditional fiscal sponsorship
approach fiscal sponsorship, which tends to lack cultural alignment and probably not being
unique or specific to the priorities of this project. This barrier not only creates trust, but it brings
about limits and effectiveness of partnerships.

For instance, in many cases of fiscal sponsors’ method, we often experience rigidity. This is not
just from our own experience in projects that come to us. When we have conversations with
them, they say that they are coming to Build Up, Inc. because of what they’ve heard about us
and how their own fiscal sponsor brings about the standardization and how they do not take into
account the lived experiences and specific cultural context of these project leaders in their
community. We have intentionally sent out the voices of those who we seek to serve, which are
the marginalized and the invisiblized. We ensure that their values, their goals, their aspirations
are shaped by our partnership model.

We do this by listening actively and just fostering a community and just a sense of belonging
and collaboration. We’ve seen that through our experiences. Projects have been able to scale in
the way they do their work. I mean, just like learners, think of transitioning to their own 541C3
status.

[00:14:09] Amanda Nasinyama: Yes. That’s a really good call out, Ajani and Chioma. When
you talk about traditional fiscal sponsorship models, we know that they often exclude the smaller
grassroots organizations. There are rigid budgets and structural requirements that limit access
to these projects joining them. They may ask for these projects to have minimum budgets. They
may ask that they pay certain fees. At Build up, Inc., we actually take on projects that have no
minimum funding. We have an initial fee that is based really on making fiscal sponsorship more
accessible. We’re very flexible and inclusive in our approach.

Then we also think a lot about infrastructure development and capacity building, right? There’s a
gap in the sector as many fiscal sponsors only focus on offering back office support. They leave
critical needs such as strategic planning, leadership development, fundraising that need to be
addressed. These are capacity gaps that a lot of our projects face. BUI recognizes these gaps
hinder our projects from achieving long-term sustainability and systemic impact, and we want to
address that.

[00:15:25] Nic Campbell: This all really resonates with the way I think about Build Up, Inc. and
its space in the sector. When I hear you all talk about cultural relevance, it’s that cultural
competence that we always talk about within the Build Up companies and how we approach the

work. What I’m hearing you all say is that you listen and that you’re responding. The way that
our infrastructure is set up, we’re being responsive, but we’re also proactive, right?

I think that that’s the balance in the mix that’s often missing. I love the approach of not having
minimum budgets, which I know can be such a barrier for certain projects. Great ideas, great
concepts, but you don’t have the minimum budget. Instead, thinking about how can we be
flexible enough to work with these leaders who have these great ideas and place this, what I
would consider a big bet on grassroots or community-led and driven organization. I think it’s
really resonating with me just how much learning we’ve had over the past year and how we’re
thinking about fiscal sponsorship now.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[00:16:38] Nic Campbell: Thank you for joining us for this conversation entitled Decolonizing
Fiscal Sponsorship on the Nonprofit Build Up podcast. To learn more about the work we do at
Build Up Companies, please visit http://www.buildupcompanies .com.

[OUTRO]

[00:16:54] Nic Campbell: Thank you for listening to this episode of Nonprofit Build Up. To
access the show notes, additional resources, and information on how you can work with us,
please visit our website at Build Upadvisory.com. We invite you to listen again next week, as we
share another episode about scaling impact by building infrastructure and capacity in the
nonprofit sector. Keep building bravely.

[END]

[PART 2 TRANSCRIPT]

[INTRO]

[00:00:08] Nic Campbell: You’re listening to the Nonprofit Build Up podcast, and I’m your host,
Nic Campbell. I want to support movements that can interrupt cycles of injustice and inequity,
and shift power towards vulnerable and marginalized communities. I’ve spent years working in
and with nonprofits and philanthropies, and I know how important infrastructure is to outcomes.
On this show, we’ll talk about how to build capacity to transform the way you and your
organization work.

[00:00:38] Stefanie Wong: Hi, and welcome to the Nonprofit Build Up podcast. I’m Stefanie
Wong, Build Up’s Executive Portfolio Manager. Today’s episode is one you won’t want to miss.
Decolonizing Fiscal Sponsorship is today’s episode, and we’re joined by Ajani Husbands, Vice
President of Strategic Planning and Senior Counsel; Amanda Nasinyama, Director of Strategic
Initiatives; and Chioma Amaechi, Program Associate from the Build Up, Inc. team.

In this episode, we reflect on the past year’s achievements and dig into the innovative ways
Build Up, Inc. is addressing systemic inequities through a decolonized approach to fiscal
sponsorship. From providing flexible fee structures to prioritizing cultural relevance, this
conversation showcases how the team is reshaping the nonprofit sector to empower BIPOC-led
initiatives and grassroots organizations. Tune in to learn more about the practical strategies and
systemic changes that can help nonprofit leaders build equitable and sustainable support
structures for lasting impact.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:01:37] Nic Campbell: I’d love to hear a little bit more about this concept of decolonizing
fiscal sponsorship. We’ve been saying that phrase, and I know that decolonizing philanthropy
has been around for a while. Why are we thinking about decolonizing fiscal sponsorship? What
does that look like? I know that when you responded just now and you just shared some of
those learnings, one of the words that stood out to me was mentorship. When we talk about
development of projects and helping and supporting leaders, that mentorship component, I
think, is really critical. I just like to hear how that all fits into how you are defining decolonization
of fiscal sponsorship.

[00:02:21] Ajani Husbands: Absolutely. As you mentioned, I mean, this does stem from the
longer held principle of decolonizing philanthropy, which we built this off of. We came up with
this idea of the need to decolonize fiscal sponsorship, mainly because the more that we talk to
prospective sponsored projects, as well as many of our current sponsored projects, a lot of them
came to us because either their current fiscal sponsors they felt were not responding to their
needs. Or they just felt that something was off, that they were not entering into a scenario where
they felt like equals or that they felt respected or heard.

A lot of that just stems from the unequal power structures that are inherent in the nonprofit
sector, but then also in particular in fiscal sponsorship. I mean, just getting to the weeds for a
second, the concept of Model A sponsorship where you say to a grassroots leader who has
been diligently working on this endeavor, you say, “Hey, absolutely. We will be your fiscal
sponsor. But, also, that means everything you are doing belongs to us now, and all your money
is actually our money, and you don’t have any signing authority. We have signing authority.”
These are very heavy terms to explain to someone.

You see projects approach this concept with some hesitancy, and so what we wanted to do with
this idea of decolonizing fiscal sponsorship was analyze key areas where we felt that we could
break down these power dynamics and create a more level playing field, a more collaborative
approach. We do this for us in four key pillars. I say for us because as we emphasized at the
NNFS conference, really it’s up to each entity, each fiscal sponsor to figure out what ways that
they themselves can best come up with a path towards decolonization.

For us, we have four pillars. The first would be emphasizing a collaborative approach to
contracting. The second would be prioritizing unique and cultural contexts. The third would be
supporting flexible fee structures, which Amanda mentioned a little bit earlier. Then the fourth
would be providing capacity building and infrastructure support. Then just quickly to say what
each one of those things means for collaborative approach to contracting, that basically means
that we don’t want to have a top-down approach. We want to make sure that while we are
respecting certain IRS regulations and norms that we have to include, we also want to make
sure that the sponsored projects that we work with, that they are seen and heard and that their
voices are included. We adjust some of the language to make sure that it is as inclusive as
possible, while also ensuring that we still maintain whatever IRS standards that we have to.

In terms of prioritizing unique and cultural contexts, that’s something we discussed earlier, just
in terms of, as an example, working with organizations that are led by the communities that they
seek to serve. But, also, we have examples where the very work that the projects are doing is
steeped in certain cultural contexts. As a fiscal sponsor, you have to be able to see and
understand what that context is in order to be able to provide support and to understand the
value there.

In terms of flexible fee structures, Amanda already discussed that in terms of making sure that
projects that may not have raised funds because as we stated, it is significantly harder for
women in BIPOC-led projects to find access to funding and resources. To make sure that they
are not locked out of the gate from the beginning, that they are able to approach us and be part
of the fiscal sponsorship process.

Then last, in terms of providing capacity building and infrastructural support, what we found is
that it’s not enough to simply be a fiscal sponsor at this stage of the game. If you really want to
help work with your projects in terms of them growing and manifesting the work that they do,
you have to be able to provide the capacity to support that, otherwise, they wouldn’t have
access to. I said a bunch just now, so I will stop so that others can chime in.

[00:06:27] Amanda Nasinyama: I think you covered it all, Ajani, in terms of describing the
concept.

[00:06:32] Chioma Amaechi: Yes, you did because for us at Build Up, Inc., decolonizing fiscal
sponsorship is going beyond theory but to practice actually. When we ask ourselves what does
it mean to decolonize fiscal sponsorship, we use ourselves as the examples or guinea pig for
lack of better words here. It goes beyond just offering the financial and legal supports from us
and from our core entity. But it means just reimagining what is meant to be a fiscal sponsor in a
way that is inclusive, culturally relevant again, and just rooted in partnership rather than in
control.

[00:07:08] Nic Campbell: Yes. No, that all makes sense. When I think about colonization, it
makes me think about systemic destruction, right? When we’re talking about decolonizing, the
reverse has to be true, right? That is systemic reconstruction, and it’s not reconstructing things
to get it back to what it was because now we’ve changed so much, and so what does that really
mean? But it’s really systemic, and that’s how we have to approach it.

These four pillars really get at that, right? That it’s not just this one moment in time or this one
thing. It’s really about a systemic approach. I really appreciate just a thoughtfulness behind
those pillars. I really like the collaborative contracting. I’m pulling that one out. Folks might be
listening like, “Why that one?” But I think when you think about contracts, people usually see
that as like the “legal” part of the process, how it’s removed. We can act all kinds of ways when
we get to that part of the process. Our agreements can be one-sided. We could have all kinds of
unreasonable terms in there. It’s just our way, or you just don’t sign on, period.

I think when you set it up in this way of, no, this is a collaborative process, it’s so different. It’s
like, “Oh. Well, now we have to think about what do our terms say in our agreement. Are we
actually showing up as partners with the folks that we’re saying that we want to support and
partner with?” It’s about being relational in that moment and realizing that contracting is part of
this relationship-building process. We talked about trust being really foundational here. I don’t
know how you keep trust when your contracting process feels like colonization, but you’re trying
to decolonize. I really appreciate just the call out about contracting being collaborative.

I guess another question I have – I have a ton, but another question I would have is, is there a
specific project or partnership this year over the past year that has helped you think about your
goals for supporting BIPOC-led initiatives against this frame of decolonizing fiscal sponsorship?
When I think about decolonizing fiscal sponsorship, I also think about it as centering justice in
the way we are supporting initiatives and projects. Is there a specific partnership or project or
initiative that you can point to over the course of the year where you said this is where this has
shown up so clearly for us?

[00:09:42] Amanda Nasinyama: Yes, sure. Ajani has already mentioned Lioness JIWA. I think
we had Lioness JIWA on the podcast before. I think Lioness JIWA to us is one of those organizations that really has embodied a lot of join us right at the start of when we’re getting
operational. In 2022, right at the end of 2022, they joined us with no funding, right? As Ajani
mentioned, it’s led by currently and formerly incarcerated women and gender-expansive people
in Texas. While they have experienced working in nonprofits, I think managing a nonprofit and
building a program was something that they were new to, right? They joined Build Up, Inc. with
the hope that they would be able to, one, raise funds for their programs, but also receive the
infrastructure support and capacity-building support in order for them to grow.

We’ve seen that in the past two years, Lioness JIWA has really strengthened their advisory
board. They have raised funds more than $150,000 for their programs. Now, they’re even at that
point where they have the infrastructure to spin off, and it’s just really great to see an
organization that’s like them. There was grassroots really led by folks with the lived experience
and has roots within the community actually just grow and become sustainable. We’re really
excited for what they’re going to do outside of fiscal sponsorship, right? We want projects to
have that. We want the projects that join us to grow and become sustainable. Whether they
choose to stay within the fiscal sponsorship structure or spin off into their own organization, we
think that success is seeing that happen.

How decolonizing showed up there again is the fact that we were able to bring on this project
with no funding that had a lot of passion and knowledge and goals. We were able to build that

trust, right? Able to have conversations, have our monthly strategy calls, provide capacity-
building workshops. Lioness JIWA attended most of our bi-monthly capacity-building workshops,

whether they were on lobbying or nonprofit governance, fundraising. I feel that this really helped
them in their growth. Lioness JIWA definitely is one of those projects that we wanted to highlight
and re-emphasize to us that what we’re doing is working, and it’s needed.

[00:12:16] Nic Campbell: It all comes full circle, and you put out the infrastructure, and they
have participated in it. It’s really emphasizing that partnership and collaboration that it’s not just
one-sided or driven by one part of the folks in that relationship. I love the work that they’re
doing, and it’s just so obvious that it’s because they have immersed themselves in the
infrastructure as well and taking advantage of the fiscal sponsorship relationship.

This has been a really wonderful conversation truly, and I have appreciated carrying each of
your insights, how the work has developed even over the past year, what we’re looking forward
to doing more of next year. I think that what folks can take away from this, which will be really,
really helpful as they’re building out their own organizations and thinking about their own
projects and initiatives is how can we center justice and equity in the work that we’re doing,
right? Yes, there is the system out there, but thinking about what you as an organization, as a
leader, what can you do, one step that you can take? This has just been a very visionary
conversation in that way and also just a very practical one as well.

One of the things that we always do is we ask a question about artists and books because we
want to continue to build knowledge through books and people that we should learn from or
about. I’d love to pose this question to you Chioma because we’ve heard from Ajani and
Amanda, and we’ll link in our show notes for this episode so that folks can go back and listen
and hear from Ajani and Amanda about this question. But I’d love to hear, Chioma, what book
do you think we should read next or what artist do you think we should be paying attention to?

[00:14:15] Chioma Amaechi: I would focus on the artist, and I would say Dunsin Oyekan. I
would spell it out. He’s a Nigerian gospel artist, and I love to listen to his songs because it’s very
calm. As a Christian, it’s one of the artists that I love to listen to, so, yes, Dunsin Oyekan.

[00:14:34] Nic Campbell: Right. We will put all that information in the show notes, so people
can listen as well. Ajani, Amanda, any new ones that have come up? You’re free to share as
well. As I mentioned, if there are no new ones, we can always just go link to the show notes as
well.

[00:14:53] Ajani Husbands: I mean, for me, last time, my artist was Black Thought from The
Roots, and that is still the case. But in terms of books, I’ll give a classic here. I just started
reading The Autobiography of Malcolm X, something that’s been on my list for a while. I highly
recommend it to everyone. Even if you are already familiar with Malcolm X or you’ve seen the
Spike Lee film or whatever it is, you should absolutely read the book because just the insight
there and, I mean, just some of the early lessons that are evident in terms of, one, making sure
to soak up whatever information is around you. Two, whatever it is that you’re doing, go all in on
it and those sorts of things. I highly recommend that book.

[00:15:36] Nic Campbell: Thanks, Ajani. We’ll add that to the show notes as well.

[00:15:39] Amanda Nasinyama: Mine is a little bit funny because I have really gotten into, I
guess, Gen Z pop music. I’m a millennial. Surprisingly, I’m such a huge fan of Sabrina Carpenter
now because I think she’s a lyricist. I mean, I just love listening to her music and the lyrics and
just how she puts that together. I was very surprised that I actually loved it. Yes, I would say that
would be a new artist that I’m listening to.

[00:16:08] Nic Campbell: We’ll add that to the show notes. Some folks can take a listen and
read as well to expand their knowledge. Again, thank you all so much for your time, for your
amazing insights as well. I do want folks to walk away with this understanding and appreciation
of what it means to decolonize fiscal sponsorship, the systemic work that it takes to reconstruct
and redesign a system that has been designed to be broken for many communities that we work
with. I appreciate all of the work that you are doing, the knowledge that you’ve shared. Again, I
think that folks that are listening will be able to use this knowledge to bravely build their own
organizations. So thank you.

[00:16:54] Chioma Amaechi: Thank you, Nic.

[00:16:55] Ajani Husbands: Thank you so much for having us, Nic.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[00:16:57] Nic Campbell: Thank you for joining us for this conversation entitled Decolonizing
Fiscal Sponsorship on the Nonprofit Build Up podcast. To learn more about the work we do at
Build Up Companies, please visit http://www.buildupcompanies .com.

[OUTRO]

[00:17:13] Nic Campbell: Thank you for listening to this episode of Nonprofit Build Up. To
access the show notes, additional resources, and information on how you can work with us,
please visit our website at buildupadvisory.com. We invite you to listen again next week, as we share another episode about scaling impact by building infrastructure and capacity in the
nonprofit sector. Keep building bravely

[END]